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Post by Admin on Feb 14, 2017 10:51:48 GMT -4
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zachw
New Member
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Post by zachw on Feb 14, 2017 15:22:46 GMT -4
This article is much like a recent article we did, and I will try to touch on points I mentioned last time. First of all, this ban is temporary, something that seems to have been lost on a lot of people. Second of all, we have to realize that the issues we have in our country are so deep-rooted that there is no one policy that will fix all of our problems. With that in mind, we should look at the intent with which this policy was written. Why do so many people feel it is necessary? Is it perhaps due to recent US and world events that have brought to light the volatile situation we find ourselves in? There is a lot of opposition to the issue of this ban, and I get it, but I ask this: what are some other viable alternatives? I really am wondering if there is a better choice. If there is, I would love to hear it.
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Post by erogler on Feb 14, 2017 15:29:30 GMT -4
This article reflects on the same political policy as the assigned reading of two weeks ago, and explains the situation from a similar point of view. I believe it would be valuable to hear from both sides of the aisle, allowing the reader to better understand the complexity of these circumstances. I agree with much of what this author has to say, but my opinions also differ from her in several ways. I respect her personal conviction to influence the minds of others by sharing her political tendencies. I only wish she would support some of her claims with more specific data, because the generalized statements that are made seem to paint very broad strokes about a topic that requires more depth.
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Post by Amanda Smith on Feb 14, 2017 19:21:46 GMT -4
No matter what side of this debate you fall on, as a medical student I can relate to the white-knuckle anger these students must have. In other words, when I read this all I could think was, "Oh my gosh, their debt." I can't imagine investing this much time, energy, and money and then being told "no." And the worst part is it's not "no, you didn't do well enough," or "no, we don't want to give you a job." It's "no, you're from Syria." If I were to replace that statement with something pointed toward me, I would be furious too. "No, you can't visit our country. You're American and you guys have lots of gun violence," or "racism" or whatever else they wanted to use to keep me out of their country. I hope that sheds light on where these foreign medical students are coming from, and why they would be so upset with this ban. That said, at the end of the day it is up to the country. And if a country did tell me I couldn't visit or immigrate due to my American elitism/racism/gun violence, I would have no choice but to obey and make different plans.
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Post by K Little on Feb 14, 2017 21:19:50 GMT -4
This was a good chance to see this side of the issue. I didnt realize the recent changes were effecting the medical community in this way. The issue is a complicated one and one new law will not be able to resolve an issue that has been building for centuries. While I would support medical students being exempt from deportation due to high merits of achievement and the abililty to be vital assets to their communities; I cant say with good concious that any one area of work is "better" or "more important" than the next. Unfortunately I feel that these students will soon be faced with deciding to continue life here in the US without their families or possibly leaving the country to stay united with their family unit.
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Post by akritipuri on Feb 14, 2017 23:45:28 GMT -4
As it was stated in the article, some people believe the prospect of dispelling doctors from other countries as well as undocumented doctors would mean that “more jobs for American doctors” would open up. I believe they don’t realize the problem isn’t with the number of jobs becoming available in the future. The real issue is that America already has a shortage of doctors and these numbers are only expected to deplete in the next 8-10 years, especially if this ban comes into permanent effect and if undocumented citizens are deported. The human population is constantly growing and it is important to ensure now that the results of this election do not leave the citizens of America in a vulnerable state when it comes to healthcare.
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Taymar Phillips (MS3)
Guest
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Post by Taymar Phillips (MS3) on Feb 15, 2017 10:50:01 GMT -4
It's great that this article reminds recognizes the value of foreign medical physicians. Unlike the previous article that was read two weeks ago, it certainly highlights the benefits of having us here such as having doctors work in less desirable areas. Although the argument against this is that there would be more jobs available for the American population, diversity in a workplace should be encouraged as there would be more creative minds to increase the standard of healthcare. Maybe if a policy was developed strictly for foreign medical personnel admittance into the United States, there would not be as much strife for practicing physicians.
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amber
New Member
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Post by amber on Feb 15, 2017 10:50:20 GMT -4
This very much integrates and enhances my stance on the previous article posted on this forum. Immigrant doctors can often seen as "better" than US doctors as the process and obstacles already faced weed out the weaker ones and so this filter process leads to stronger doctors. The challenges are insurmountable and i believe many of us can speak from experience, I certainly can. However, i can't help but look at this from a different point of view - the countries where these great doctors are from suffer a brain drain as a result...and if i continue speaking on the impact of the immigrant countries I will stray further from the article as everything seems to be about "making America great again" (yes i just cringed as i typed that mantra) - There need to be stronger Residency programs available in other countries. The band was temporary and i believe the current administration has realized the error of their ways and will take a more calculated approach on finding balance between progress and safety. If not - opposition is ready.
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Post by Kayla Miller on Feb 15, 2017 12:36:38 GMT -4
As a medical student, I can imagine how these two hundred and sixty medical graduates must feel. To put in all the work to graduate medical school and then be told that you cannot complete your dream would be absolutely crushing. I hope that the ban stays overturned, but I do still believe that there needs to be stricter policies on immigration. It does not surprise me that immigrant medical doctors may have better outcomes than American medical doctors. They know that they have to prove themselves, leading them to be more vigilant in their work. I also think that the immigrant doctors are important for the United States health care because as stated in the article, they have supplied one hundred and sixty-five areas that were short on doctors. It is heart wrenching to think about what would have become of these areas if foreign doctors were not providing care there.
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Post by A Frater on Feb 15, 2017 13:00:15 GMT -4
As an international graduate myself, I understand just how competitive it is to secure a residency position in the United States. I cannot imagine the stress that the physicians are under who have overcome the board exams and secured interviews and now have a great risk that this may be taken from them. Physicians come to this country to serve the American people and have the threat looming over them that they may be deported. As many rural areas employ foreign physicians, with many from the 7 countries listed by President Trump's ban, this leaves a huge population without access to the health care they deserve if their physicians are deported. Since many American trained physicians prefer to live in urban areas, what is the solution to these shortages? I would be interested to see what the President's proposal is for this issue.
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Post by Paul on Feb 15, 2017 13:49:09 GMT -4
The problem here is that there is an actual problem with illegal immigration in the United States, Trump made securing our borders a centerpiece to his campaign, and he delivered just that to his supporters albeit in a seemingly abrupt and incompletely thought out fashion. Fortunately, our system has checks and balances and the ban was lifted. I honestly would be shocked if these medical graduates were not provided an exemption in this ban, or any future ban that the government is going to try and re-create in the near future. It's good that these articles are being written, so as to inform of us potential hardships we might be causing future honest providers of our people but I am skeptical that these people will be included in the ban regardless of country of origin.
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Post by Malaka Mustafa on Feb 15, 2017 19:11:18 GMT -4
Foreign doctors not only fill a void for doctors that are needed in the country-side where their American counterparts are less-inclined to live and serve, but they often deliver higher-quality care for their patients. It is crucial to incentivize the entry and admission of these candidates, as it literally yields better health for our nation. The current version of Trump’s executive order banning travel of non-citizens from 7 Muslim-Majority countries (but provides exceptions for those not Muslim) is asinine, unconstitutional, and an affront to our American values. Regarding the medical profession, I know of no patient that asks about the faith of his or her doctor before receiving treatment or vice versa.
-Malaka
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Post by Nicholas Ruth on Feb 15, 2017 20:05:58 GMT -4
The article two weeks ago discussed similarly how an immigrant ban would exacerbate the shortage in the medical profession. While this article focuses on the plight of foreign medical doctors, the bigger issue is what type of immigration policy should the US have. Should the US have completely open borders with unlimited entry (both documented and undocumented) for anyone? Should we have secure borders and a process to control immigration? The vast majority of all countries or unions have border controls and a process to manage immigration and their security. If any country has immigration control, it will impact many professions not just doctors. Just as US medical students cannot go practice in any country they may want to, there should be a managed process for foreign doctors in the US. The current US visa system has worked well providing skilled foreign workers (IT, doctors, etc) in professions with shortages. This process will most likely continue and provide foreign doctors with their skills and perspectives the ability to practice in the US.
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Post by Fatima Misbah on Feb 15, 2017 20:18:43 GMT -4
As discussed in the article two weeks ago, foreign doctors make up 25% of the physicians practicing in the United States. Now we find that they are the ones serving in impoverished, underfunded, and rural areas that American doctors either find distasteful or inconvenient. For those who say that getting rid of these doctors will create more openings for American medical grads to find jobs don't really understand that even with those foreign doctors Americans are facing a startling degree of physician shortages. And as discussed in the article, a decrease in the incoming international physicians will affect the rural areas the most. The quality of care has already declined due to overworked and exhausted physicians, please don't get behind the new president's irrational ideas and make it any worse.
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Post by victorayulo on Feb 15, 2017 22:06:07 GMT -4
This article, like the article before it, neglects to mention the reason the ban was instated to begin with and searches for reasons why the ban is a bad idea. But the only argument the article offers is that immigrant physicians are better doctors and work more in underserved areas. The article laments that 260 recent graduates from these 7 countries would not be able to attend residency in the US and must get their training elsewhere. My question is who cares? Those 260 recent graduates are not entitled to train in the US and those 260 residency slots will be filled by Americans or other immigrants. The argument that there will be less doctors training in underserved areas is weak as well. Those 260 open residency slots will also be filled by many immigrants from the other 188 countries of the world that weren't banned. The purpose of the ban was to save American lives. If we prevent terrorist attacks like 9/11 from the temporary ban then I think we can allow the possibility of a couple less doctors in underserved areas.
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